Help for extreme sleeping bag

[federico]

Hy all, I'm Federico and I'm writing from italy. I'm searching an extreme sleeping bag, and, surfing in the web, i found some sleeping bag brand that i dont' know..so to find some info i decided to write here.

I need a sleeping bag with comfort temperature about -15° and limit about -20° or more.

I found different products as PRIMA BIVAK XP, or PINGUIN EXPERT, or SIR JOSEPH LOOPING 900, and them seems to me to have a good quality and price. ( there is also NORDISK brand that seems good but more expensive)

I tried to search in this forum some informations but without success ( i have to translate from czech to italian or english and google translator commits a lot of mistakes, and so it is not so easy for me)

Please, someone could help me in this choice? also with other brand/products that I dont know..all infos are well apcetded!

..In change i can offer a virtual ( or real! ) glass of italian wine.... I can also offer beer..but czech beer is surely better than italian one!

Thanks all

Federico from Genova Italy

[Indy]

take Sir Joseph, if you want down (natural featehr).

or choose Prima, if you prefere primaloft, syntetic material.

if you do not know difference, natural down is better insulation (in same weight), but cannot take humidity (especialy for long trips, it loose loft and insulation abilities) - and vice versa.

so for european clima, i mean wet spring, autum and winter is primaloft better especialy for longer trips, when you cannot deal with humidity. for 1-2days this is not big problem.

for scandinavian or high mountain clima when air humidity is much lower, go for natural down, and for shorter trips in normal european weather, also choose down.

[federico]

Indy thank you so much for your reply. i know the difference between down and syntetic materials. and so I'm oriented to Prima bags. I would like to know if the temperature ratings are real or not.
For example pinguin expert declares - 9 comfort -17 limit. i dont' know if it's real. you can find this bag at about 2700 czk (100 euro). with others brand you need about 5000 czk ( 200 euro) to have similar thermal performances...so some doubts about pinguin appears to me!

instead Prima and sir joseph are good brand and i can trust them? have you got to suggest me other brands?

[Indy]

yes, they are. and we foud them keeping warranties for customers quite friendly.

to be honest, you also can find quality down in nanook, and syntetic insulation is used in Ajungilak, currently part of Mammut. of cause, prices are higher.

And there is more companies even in CZ or SK, Warmpeace, for example, and others.

maybe this -20 sleeping bag can be called 3-seasons instead of extreme.

I hope you will be satisfied with prima, and suggest you to read condition for usage and storage of such sleeping bag. of cause, if you know them, i mean it as no offence.

[mike]

Federico, the consensus here is that Prima sleeping bags are nice, good quality and materials but the temperature rating is NOT real. Usuall experience is they are shifted by 5 - 10 degrees. We made a survey among people who own them and the results are quite convincing although individual experience may differ. The survey is here, in Czech language but I think it should be understandable (click on Zobrazit výsledky to see results). We even had a discussion with company owner who obviously didn't like it but indirectly confirmed they're trying to get the best numbers the way which doesn't correspond with real life use. So my recommendation is to add 7 degrees to the comfort and limit rating if you want to buy Prima bag. Also, you can use their overall ratings (summer, 3 season, winter...) which is real and which doesn't correspond with temperature ratings.

Sir Joseph is good quality and you can trust their numbers. I don't remember single complaint here and the consensus is their numbers are real. You won't make a mistake with this brand. They even have sleeping bags with membrane which mostly solves problem with down and moisture. The choice is on you depending on your use but almost everybody here who started with synthetic bag and later switched to down would never go back. Including me. It is much better feeling with less weight and packed volume. This is IMO the main drawback of Prima bags -- you can get good and warm one but it is heavy and takes half of your backpack.

P.S. you're right, Italian wine and Czech beer

[federico]

Indy, Mike thank you for your suggestion!

I saw sir joseph sleeping bag and they are good equipment but the price is to much for me. To be honest I need this sleeping bag to go to a motorcycle meeting in Solla - Germany ( Elefantentreffen if you know). So the weight is not so important for me ( instead the volume is more important); so the price and the thermal rating are the most important factors which determines my choose.

I'm oriented to synthetic filling so, Prima.

But I cant understand the difference between WINTER 220 and BIVAK 220. the thermal rating are similar, but winter has filling climashield XP/APEX and bivak only climashield XP.

There are differences between the outer and inner material ( taffeta ripstop and others)

the weight is the same. winter is cheaper.

i think that apex is better than Xp..it's wrong? so for me winter is better than bivak..which are your opinion?

Federico

[mike]

I think they use the same insulation for both and only haven't updated web pages. Winter is newer than Bivak so they wrote description later and didn't update older for Bivak. See also here, they have Climashield XP/APEX for everything.

I'd say Winter is cheaper variant of Bivak which they rate as top product. The same insulation but cheaper outer and inner materials.

If you're in doubts, you can ask them directly by e-mail. There are several people who have Bivak but probably none who has Winter as it is new.

[pavproch]

@federico: Having had (and slept within, gotta say) several SJ´s down bags for years, I wouldn´t even think of them as pricey. They´re worth every buck spent.... but... not everyone can/may/will afford their quality, that´s clear and understandable. For them, there is an alternative - http://malachowski.pl/sklep/pl/oferta/4 ... =guide+pro. It is said (unfortunately, there is no personal experience with me, so I cannot comment upon) these bags are of rather exceptional quality considering their Polish origin.

[tocak]

Other alternative you can see sleeping bag from mark Warmpeace. Now they have sale old colection http://www.warmpeace.cz/cs/outlet any prices are 1/2 original prices in shop. Mabye Warmpeace Explorer 900, Warmpeace Viking 900, Warmpeace Winterlite could be sleeping bag for you. Price this sleeping bag are aproximetly 200€

I have great experiences with this mark, I traied three sleeping bag and now have for sleep in winter warmpeace Viking 900.

The similar price had Sir Joseph Rimo 1000, that is so good sleeping bag. This had my girlfriend and she is satisfied. We sleeped outside tent in winter when was -5C and everything all right.

Sorry for my english I'm infinite beginner.

[federico]

My target price is about 4000 czk ( 150 euro).

for the prima polar 1000? how about it?

Today i found a new ( for me) brand: Carinthia defence 4...I saw its czeh product..you know it?

I found some information also in italian forum, and i found it for 130 euro. it seems to me a really good price. how about it?

@ mike: I was wondering that , for your survey, Prima has a gap of about 5-10° in ther thermal rating. Searching famous brand sleeping bag i noticed that The north face " dark star" weights 2.3 kg ( as prima bivak) and has -29 C temperature. either has apex filling, so i think that also north face has 5/10 C° temperature gap ( more or less).
but north face costs about 300 euro versus 150 of prima. how do you feel about it?


@Tocak: dont' mind, your English is good!

[mike]

Searching famous brand sleeping bag i noticed that The north face " dark star" weights 2.3 kg ( as prima bivak) and has -29 C temperature. either has apex filling, so i think that also north face has 5/10 C° temperature gap ( more or less).

Not necessarily. You need to compare comparable. I guess -29 C is the extrem value which is the least useful (in reality completely useless) one. The temperature shift we mention for Prima bags is for comfort and limit values according to EN 13537 and unfortunately, TNF doesn't present them. However, I've found one site where they are for this bag: http://www.schneideroutdoor.nl/dark-star-long. Comfort -11 and limit -18 whereas Prima Bivak has -12 and -22 so limit differs by 4 degrees. Also, TNF bag looks narrower so it can be warmer for the same weight. Well, as I said, compare comparable and such a value isn't exactly weight of bag but weight of insulation used. Bivak has 4x100 g/m^2 Climashield insulation but how much has Dark Star? I don't know, it can have a bit more (because is narrower).

I doubt anyone here has an experience with TNF winter synthetic bags. Who'd buy twice as expensive synthetic bag if can have down one for this price?

[federico]

Yes you're right. for the same price it has no sense buy a synthetic bag instead down.

And for Carinthia defence 4? someone know this brand?

[Indy]

Carinthia is designed for hunters, military etc.

as far as i know is overpriced for common users.

You probably dont need camouflage colours wich are also working as camoulafe in infra red night vision googles etc etc...

[federico]

overpriced?
133 euro in olive green colour...

but today i'm thinking about warmpeace viking 900 for 200 euro..I have many ideas and well confused!

[Indy]

ok, then, if it comparable...

[tocak]

When you thinking quick, you can buy Warmpeace Viking in sale approximately 160E on this page http://www.kamzik.cz/?page=search&sortm ... mNoJ3RydWU

This price is only Today 20.11